Average customer rating:
- out of stock
- Talks About Rhetoric Versus Philosophy
- A great translation
- A great introduction to Plato's philosophy
- Excellent introduction to moral philosophy
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Gorgias (Penguin Classics)
Plato
Manufacturer: Penguin Classics
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ASIN: 0140449043
Release Date: 2004-06-29 |
Book Description
Taking the form of a dialogue among Socrates, Gorgias, Polus, and Callicles, the Gorgias debates crucial questions about the nature of government. While the aspiring politician Callicles propounds the view that might is right, and the rhetorician Gorgias argues that oratory and the power to persuade represent “the greatest good,” Socrates insists on the duty of politicians to consider the welfare of their citizens—a duty he believed had been dishonored in the Athens of his time. The dialogue offers fascinating insights into how classical Athens was governed and creates a theoretical framework that has been highly influential on subsequent political debate.
Customer Reviews:
out of stock.......2007-08-31
I did not receive the item because they were out of stock, so I really can not rate the service. This is the first time that I have bought from this particular company, so I have no comment. However, if i was to rate this particular occasion, i would give it a 1 because I could not get what i wanted.
Talks About Rhetoric Versus Philosophy.......2006-11-12
I've been reading some of Plato's diologues to find out more about Plato himself.
I consider these books to be light reading. They have a certain charm and you can relate to the various speakers of which Socrates is the main one for the dialogues I have read so far.
The main point here is comparing rhetoric or the art of verbal persuasion to philosophy.
Socrates' two great loves were beautiful boys and philosophy so you can guess which side Socrates was on.
He considers rhetoric to be a form of deception really which only superficially informs people for the sake of pursuasion for selfish motives.
Philosophy on the other hand is the real truth.
It talks about how if Socrates was ever pulled into court his lack of skills with rhetoric would make him easy prey for his accusers.
Since Socrates was executed perhaps this is what really happened I don't know.
I find these books interesting because Plato and those others believed in the mythological gods.
The explantory notes indicate that the three brothers Zeus, Poseidon, and Pluto divided up this earthly domain.
Zeus took the realm of the sky, Poseidon took the surface of the earth which includes the sea, and Pluto took the underworld.
Plato apparently didn't think too much of cooks. He calls cooking a knack and compares it to medicine which is a skill he says.
Plato gets carried away sometimes with his analogies.
Undoubtedly Plato's thoughts evolved throughout his life.
All of his many writings are I guess a snapshot of his thought processes at a particular time.
After I finish a few more of these dialogues I'll read 'The Laws' which I think was one of Plato's last works.
The next one on my list is 'Symposium'.
Jeff Marzano
A great translation.......2002-10-12
Nichols' translation of Gorgias is indeed impressive. I have heard and read other translations of Gorgias- but the word choice of those other translation is too unadmirable(like "knack"-a word that is not fitted with Platonic dialogues). Nichols keeps consistent and easily understandable words. He doesn't go about saying "smart" words- unlike others who seem to try and exhaust their vocab. before they finish the work.
A great introduction to Plato's philosophy.......2002-07-19
This is one of my favorite Socratic dialogues. The evidence suggests that Plato wrote it soon after the execution of Socrates, and while I would not say there is a bitter edge to this Gorgias dialogue, I can definitely say that the exchanges do get a little lively at times. At one point, I could almost hear the voices of Socrates and Polus being raised as they argued. Another positive aspect of this dialogue is the fact that it is comparatively easy to understand. Socrates does not start spouting ideas about true Forms or using geometry to prove his points; the more esoteric, more advanced Platonic ideas are to be found in Plato's later writings. In many ways, this dialogue also serves as an introduction to Plato's masterpiece The Republic. Socrates' ideas on some things seem nascent at this point, and he actually contradicts some points he would later make, but the heart of Socratic thought lies within easy grasp in the pages of this dialogue.
The dialogue begins as a discussion about the true nature of oratory. The famed orator Gorgias is in town, and Socrates is most anxious to have a discussion with him. At first, Gorgias' younger friend Polus desires to speak for Gorgias, but he proves little match for Socrates. When Gorgias enters the discussion, Socrates treats him very well, as a respectable man with whom he disagrees, and Gorgias for his part is never flustered by Socrates' description of his art as a knack and as a form of pandering. Later, Callicles bravely jumps into the mix, and things really get interesting. Socrates seemingly admires Callicles' courage to state what he means without shame, yet he winds up getting Callicles to agree with his points in the end. What is it all about? The main points that Socrates makes are that it is better to suffer wrong than to do wrong, and that it is better for a man to be punished for his wrongs than to escape punishment. Implicit in his argument is the belief that all wrongdoing is the result of ignorance; following up on this idea, he declares that dictators and politicians who hold vast powers are the most miserable men of all. He goes so far as to describe Athenian heroes such as Pericles as bad men because the state was less healthy when they left office than when they took office, the proof being that such men eventually lost power and were even ostracized.
For Socrates, happiness comes from being virtuous and self-disciplined. The orator can make a great speech and convince his peers that he is right, but he does this by inculcating belief rather than knowledge in the minds of his audience; he requires no knowledge to win such a debate, and as a result he tells the people what he knows they want to hear rather than what is truly best for them. Right and wrong are immaterial to the orator, Socrates charges. Callicles urges Socrates to give up his immature fixation on philosophy and become a public speaker; were he to be brought to court and charged with a wrong, Callicles tells him that he would be unable to defend himself. Much of the concluding pages consist of a wonderful defense by Socrates of his way of life. He agrees that a court could rather easily try and execute him, but if that were to happen, only his accusers would suffer for it. His thoughts are for the next world, and he has no fear of death because he believes a man with a clean, healthy soul such as his will be given immediate access to the isles of the blessed. The execution of Socrates was clearly on Plato's mind as he wrote this particular discourse.
I would recommend this dialogue to individuals seeking an introduction to Plato's philosophy. The entire discussion is clear throughout and easily comprehensible, and it proves interesting to see how some of Plato's thoughts changed between the years separating this dialogue and The Republic.
Excellent introduction to moral philosophy.......2000-11-19
Plato's Gorgias is one of the masterpieces not just of the Western, but of any Canon, and Waterfield's translation for Oxford World's Classics adds an informative introduction and many helpful explanatory notes. I have used this text for years in my ethics classes, and every time I read it I come away with something new. Plato pits Socrates, the defender of moral realism, against three opponents who represent varying degrees of moral relativism: Gorgias, the Elder Statesman of Sophistry, Polus, a young turk who is quickly trapped by Socrates, and Callicles, one of the greatest characters in all of philosophical literature, who presents a case not unlike that of Nietzsche's Uebermensch. Though it is difficult to say whether Socrates is fully successful in refuting his interlocutors, watching him try is both exciting and informative, and can serve as an excellent introduction to moral philosophy.
Average customer rating:
- All of Allen's translations ROCK
- Very clear, well organized and engaging.
- The best work of Crito
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The Dialogues of Plato, Volume 1: Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Meno, Gorgias, Menexenus (The Dialogues of Plato)
Plato
Manufacturer: Yale University Press
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ASIN: 0300044887 |
Customer Reviews:
All of Allen's translations ROCK.......2007-09-04
The five volumes that Allen has produced so far are much more than just another set of translations of Plato. They provide a coherent and accessible stand-alone course of study in Platonic philosophy. One can start right from the Preface of the fist volume and read them all straight through to the very end of Allen's masterful edition of the Republic. In fact - that is exactly what one should do.
Allen develops a number of crucial ideas in his commentaries/introductions. One of his most brilliant strokes is his demonstration of how the "Forms" are already strongly implied in the early "Socratic" dialogs. Those dialogs assume that such questions as "what is virtue?" are meaningful - and the way in which Plato assumes this already assumes that there is such a thing as Virtue, ie, the "Form" of virtue.
The order in which the dialogs are arranged is far from conventional - and yet there is a master plan behind it all. If one takes the time to read (and probably re-read) the Introductions/Commentaries while reading the dialogs in the given order, the maximum benefit will be gained from Allen's depth of knowledge and insight.
If you are starting from scratch I would highly recommend also reading Pierre Hadot's "What Is Ancient Philosophy?" in parallel with this first volume. Julia Annas' "Introduction" to the Republic would also be good to have once you get to that volume (which is the fifth and last one so far - as of August 2007).
One hopes that Allen is at work right now on a translation of the Phaedo!!!!
Very clear, well organized and engaging........2001-02-11
This book is excellent for anyone interested in the study of Platonic philosophy, both in the original dialogue form and in commentary which elucidates the primary text. Allen assembles six dialogues in this volume, which all deal with several major themes; the necessity of true definition of words if any meaningful dialogue is to be carried on regarding them (such as virtue, piety, justice, etc.), the death of Socrates, and absolute necessity of caring for the excellence of the soul through acting justly and absolutely rejecting injustice. Allen begins each chapter with a clear and very instructive discourse on the dialogue, as well as relating it to others which illustrate the same concepts dealt with in the present one. He always avoids devloving into the effetism of academic terminology, so he is very readable. He expresses the true meaning of the dialogue in language which all can understand. The dialogues are translated in a very understandable contemporary language, yet somehow manage to maintain the linguistic, poetic power of the original. I found that reading the commentary first, then the dialogue, and finally rereading the commentary provided a wonderful way to use this book. I can't wait to read the entire set! Buy and read it!
The best work of Crito.......1999-12-04
Crito was a great book to read about for philosophy. It was very interesting in various ways.
Book Description
Two major works by one of history's best known and most widely read and studied philosophers. Gorgias addresses the temptations of success and the rewards of a moral life; Timaeus is an explanation of the world in terms not only of physical laws but also of metaphysical and religious principles. B. Jowett translation.
Book Description
Plato, the great philosopher of Athens, was born in 427
BCE. In early manhood an admirer of Socrates, he later founded the famous school of philosophy in the grove Academus. Much else recorded of his life is uncertain; that he left Athens for a time after Socrates' execution is probable; that later he went to Cyrene, Egypt, and Sicily is possible; that he was wealthy is likely; that he was critical of 'advanced' democracy is obvious. He lived to be 80 years old. Linguistic tests including those of computer science still try to establish the order of his extant philosophical dialogues, written in splendid prose and revealing Socrates' mind fused with Plato's thought.
In Laches, Charmides, and Lysis, Socrates and others discuss separate ethical conceptions. Protagoras, Ion, and Meno discuss whether righteousness can be taught. In Gorgias, Socrates is estranged from his city's thought, and his fate is impending. The Apology (not a dialogue), Crito, Euthyphro, and the unforgettable Phaedo relate the trial and death of Socrates and propound the immortality of the soul. In the famous Symposium and Phaedrus, written when Socrates was still alive, we find the origin and meaning of love. Cratylus discusses the nature of language. The great masterpiece in ten books, the Republic, concerns righteousness (and involves education, equality of the sexes, the structure of society, and abolition of slavery). Of the six so-called dialectical dialogues Euthydemus deals with philosophy; metaphysical Parmenides is about general concepts and absolute being; Theaetetus reasons about the theory of knowledge. Of its sequels, Sophist deals with not-being; Politicus with good and bad statesmanship and governments; Philebus with what is good. The Timaeus seeks the origin of the visible universe out of abstract geometrical elements. The unfinished Critias treats of lost Atlantis. Unfinished also is Plato's last work of the twelve books of Laws (Socrates is absent from it), a critical discussion of principles of law which Plato thought the Greeks might accept.
The Loeb Classical Library edition of Plato is in twelve volumes.
Customer Reviews:
A very fine edition of important texts.......2005-01-10
Like most volumes in the Loeb series, the emphasis is not on word-for-word precision in the translation, but on acheiving greater readability in broader terms. Since the original text in ancient Greek is provided on the facing page, the editors assume that anyone with a little knowledge of Greek can supplement the looseness of the translation by referring to the original. And in general, the compromises made in this way are good ones throughout the series. In this case the translations may have been superseded by subsequent work in the field, especially in the case of the Symposium. But these are still very seviceable translations, and with the Greek text provided, may be more useful than other more precise renderings.
Love Itself.......2000-04-15
Well What can I say about Plato, The man showed a way and with this book you can come to see Love Itself and partake of the good.
Average customer rating:
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Gorgias (Clarendon Paperbacks)
Plato , and
E. R. Dodds
Manufacturer: Oxford University Press, USA
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback
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ASIN: 0198144954 |
Book Description
This paperback edition of Dodds's standard edition of Plato's Gorgias is designed to meet the needs both of undergraduates and professional scholars. The text and apparatus criticus are based on a fresh survey of the evidence: two major manuscripts are here for the first time fully collated, and account has been taken both of new papyri and of the exceptionally rich indirect tradition. The text is supplemented by a full introduction giving details on the subject and structure of the dialogue, its characters and intended historical setting, the real date of composition, and the background to Plato and Athens at the time of composition. The commentary, besides explaining Platonic usages and discussing textual points, aims to treat the historical, philosphical, and literary questions which arise from the text.
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Plato's Gorgias
Plato
Manufacturer: Agora Pubns
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Audio CD
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ASIN: 1887250131 |
Book Description
A dramatization of Plato's dialogue in modern English. Plato's Gorgias treats many of the fundamental issues in human life, including the nature of goodness, how to lead a good life, the proper place of pleasure and pain in ethical thinking, the role of the ruler in the social and political realm, and the proper use of punishment. The dialogue begins with a discussion between Socrates and Gorgias about the nature and proper function of rhetoric, and it ends with a vision of what awaits us after death.
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A Friendly Companion to Plato's Gorgias
George Kimball Plochmann , and
Franklin E. ROBINSON
Manufacturer: Southern Illinois University Press
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Binding: Hardcover
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ASIN: 0809314045 |
Book Description
A comprehensive study of “one of the most elusive and subtle” of all the Platonic dialogues.
The Gorgias begins with a discussion of the nature and value of rhetoric and develops into an impassioned argument for the primacy of absolute right (as expressed by conscience) in the regulation of both public and private life. Plochmann and Robinson closely analyze this great dialogue in the first two-thirds of their book, turning in the final four chapters to a broader discussion of its unity, sweep, and philosophic implications.
Book Description
Aristotle, great Greek philosopher, researcher, reasoner, and writer, born at Stagirus in 384
BCE, was the son of Nicomachus, a physician, and Phaestis. He studied under Plato at Athens and taught there (367-347); subsequently he spent three years at the court of a former pupil, Hermeias, in Asia Minor and at this time married Pythias, one of Hermeias's relations. After some time at Mitylene, in 343-2 he was appointed by King Philip of Macedon to be tutor of his teen-aged son Alexander. After Philip's death in 336, Aristotle became head of his own school (of 'Peripatetics'), the Lyceum at Athens. Because of anti-Macedonian feeling there after Alexander's death in 323, he withdrew to Chalcis in Euboea, where he died in 322.
Nearly all the works Aristotle prepared for publication are lost; the priceless ones extant are lecture-materials, notes, and memoranda (some are spurious). They can be categorized as follows: I Practical: Nicomachean Ethics; Great Ethics (Magna Moralia); Eudemian Ethics; Politics; Economics (on the good of the family); On Virtues and Vices. II Logical: Categories; Analytics (Prior and Posterior); Interpretation; Refutations used by Sophists; Topica. III Physical: Twenty-six works (some suspect) including astronomy, generation and destruction, the senses, memory, sleep, dreams, life, facts about animals, etc. IV Metaphysics: on being as being. V Art: Rhetoric and Poetics. VI Other works including the Constitution of Athens; more works also of doubtful authorship. VII Fragments of various works such as dialogues on philosophy and literature; and of treatises on rhetoric, politics and metaphysics.
The Loeb Classical Library edition of Aristotle is in twenty-three volumes.
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